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View Full Version : Letting another die for money.


Billygoat
02-10-2006, 09:30 PM
Or lack of:

http://tinyurl.com/bn669

"Man Dies After Insurance Co. Refuses To Cover Treatment"

When Flink talked to Tracy Pierce, his cancer was attacking his body. Despite being fully insured, every treatment his doctors sought for him was denied by his insurance provider. First-Health Coventry deemed the treatments were either not a medical necessity or experimental."
...
"As he waited, his doctors appealed again and again, including a 27-page appeal spelling out that Tracy Pierce would die without care. Coventry dismissed each request.

"It's purely economical. You never see an insurance company try to block an inexpensive test," said William Soper."
...
"Even as he was dying, for more than a week, his insurance company denied him oral morphine, which had been prescribed to reduce his pain.

"That's unacceptable because in this day and age, no one should be in pain," Pierce said. "

My question to all of you is:

"Would you let someone die solely because you would not get money for it?"

These people did.

It's not like they didn't have the neccesary resources on hand to take care of this person, they just wouldn't get paid for it.



And why not? Most of you out there pay taxes to your governments, and a small part of those taxes go towards paying farmers not to grow crops.
Not because there is to much food in the world, but so they (the farmers) won't flood the market with foods and thereby bringing the price down to an unprofitable level.

http://tinyurl.com/75svg
"The all-time highest recipient of direct federal subsidies is the agricultural sector, which collected $114 billion from 1995 to 2002. (See the Environmental Working Group's website.) The WTO estimates crop and milk subsidies at $19.6 billion for 2003. Much of that has been used to prop up prices to farmers because there is too much product on the market. In some cases, farmers are being paid not to grow crops in order to limit supply and increase prices. A careful analysis of how tax dollars are flowing to farms may very well reveal that we could reapply the money, phasing out subsidies that are justified currently only because of overproduction, and using it instead to develop crops that supply fuel. . The argument against this approach is that it could cause a modest increase in food prices. We would argue that subsidizing a farmer is an inefficient way to lower food prices for those that otherwise could not afford food. It is much more efficient to financially assist those who need the money in order to eat."

Is that any different? Starving people instead of denying them treatment?

That has got to be the saddest commentary on Human Civilization yet. If you can call that being civilized.

Scollzie
02-11-2006, 06:07 PM
"The all-time highest recipient of direct federal subsidies is the agricultural sector, which collected $114 billion from 1995 to 2002. (See the Environmental Working Group's website.) The WTO estimates crop and milk subsidies at $19.6 billion for 2003. Much of that has been used to prop up prices to farmers because there is too much product on the market. In some cases, farmers are being paid not to grow crops in order to limit supply and increase prices. A careful analysis of how tax dollars are flowing to farms may very well reveal that we could reapply the money, phasing out subsidies that are justified currently only because of overproduction, and using it instead to develop crops that supply fuel. . The argument against this approach is that it could cause a modest increase in food prices. We would argue that subsidizing a farmer is an inefficient way to lower food prices for those that otherwise could not afford food. It is much more efficient to financially assist those who need the money in order to eat."

But isn't it easier to just moan about "overpopulation"? I mean, heaven forbid we should feed everybody! :rolleyes: Much better to limit production, keep demand up, make sure we get the best (highest) prices for food, and just let starvation continue to be a reality around the world, isn't it? :(

geekazoid
02-12-2006, 06:21 AM
And why not? Most of you out there pay taxes to your governments, and a small part of those taxes go towards paying farmers not to grow crops.
Not because there is to much food in the world, but so they (the farmers) won't flood the market with foods and thereby bringing the price down to an unprofitable level.
.

people dont choose to pay their taxes or not, they have to. what happened to that man was awful, but you cant suggest that people in general are just as bad because they pay their taxes?! if you don't want your taxes to go to those farmers, you have a right to tell people that, but to be honest i think you'd make more of a difference getting your point of view across in a newspaper, or other public forum, rather than safesearching, which i dont think is generally looked at by many influential members of parliament (or equivilant)

Billygoat
02-12-2006, 08:17 AM
i think you'd make more of a difference getting your point of view across in a newspaper, or other public forum,

Who says I don't?

geekazoid
02-13-2006, 11:00 AM
im not saying you don't, im saying that you wont get many influential people reading what you have to say here, so if you really want to make a difference to where your taxes go, here isn't the place to have a go at people who pay them

Scollzie
02-13-2006, 01:13 PM
im not saying you don't, im saying that you wont get many influential people reading what you have to say here, so if you really want to make a difference to where your taxes go, here isn't the place to have a go at people who pay them

Who knows who all reads these forums? But in any event, this forum is about "The World at Large", and his post is addressing a moral issue. So it's not off-topic... and is thus allowed. :)
I don't see his comments as suggesting that "...people in general are just as bad because they pay their taxes...", but rather suggesting that their taxes paid aren't being used to the best of the greater good and hoped to get the reader thinking about this.

Anyhow, keep up the good debate, and try not to argue about what should be posted where - there are moderators for this. ;)

Billygoat
02-13-2006, 06:21 PM
It's societies fault.

Who is "society"?

You are, I am, Bill is, Fred, Willma, Nancy, so on ad nauseum.

Each and every person is a "Influential" person, not just those whom we may give greater respect to solely for thier social status as an "official" of one sort or another. (After all, it was the uninfluential people who voted the influential ones in wasn't it?)
Each person has a voice that can be heard, which they should use when and wherever they think it may do some good, if even just a tinyest iota. In this respect even bad bantering back and forth is good, for it brings about disscussion that otherwise would not be there.

As for your trying to reason that I'm making out the taxpayer to be a bad person you were mistaken. (and I may have badly typed it) It was meant in just the direct opposite of that, of course I don't think that people would direct thier taxes in such a way as to willfully and knowingly harm another person, or group of people.
However, that is what is done. Not just by taxpayers, and not by malicious intent(I hope), but by subsidising illusions that have been created and will be very hard to disperse.

Case in point:
Only the rich can get good medical care.
Bos taurus (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Bos%20taurus) fecal matter! As seen above, all that was needed was for people to tell the corporate entity (http://www.paralegal-plus.com/corporation.htm) to go to heck and do the right thing.
If you didn't read the link, the corporation isn't even a real person all though it is considered one for legal reasons to alleviate the "real" individualls from liability.

Sure, there are shift supervisors, department heads, a slew of boards and committees, CEwhatevers and most importantly the shareholders board, but do you think these people actually sat down and said "Let this man die because he cannot pay"?
Probably not. What was done, was a set of rules and guidances was set in place to make sure that the corporate entity would make lots of Money, as per want of the shareholders and these were followed.
It goes on every day, day in, day out. It's just another day at the virtual office for the corporate entity.

Case in point:
Humanity can't make enough food to feed Humanity. People starve every day because of this lack of production.

As pointed out above again, this is also a work of corporate fiction. What needs to happen there is for actual people to say screw the corporate entity and carry on with doing the right thing themselves.



"What needs to happen is for actual people to say screw the corporate entity and carry on with doing the right thing themselves."

And in that respect, yes, here, and anywhere else, on the net or off, is quite the correct place to open my mouth.
Widely.

Lisalou
03-03-2006, 05:36 AM
Well why did this guy stay with this insurance company? why not switch to SSI (social security insurance) he was terminally ill he would have been approved. And if I were the doctor i would do all i could, but the real person to blame is the Chief of staff to the hospital. that person solely has the discression as to whether or not to help the patient when insurance will not. Hospitals are allowed to have so much debt due to non payment, then that debt is compensated by federal grants. (or so I was told) there is no reason why this man had to die, this the year 2006 not the dark ages. And if the man had any family members they should be sueing the pants off the insurance and the hospital!!!!