New Terrorist plot

[premonitionqueen]

if u havent heard, please go here.
http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2006/08/11/453334.html
everyone needs to be informed.

[from_London]

yea that is quite serious, but we will be ok, the threat level in the UK is at critical and i have noticed loads more police on the tube so we will be fine :)

[Lisalou]

What I want to know is when is it going to stop? When are these terrorist going to learn that the rest of the world simply does not share their points of view. and since when does murder ever make people want to listen. Someone tries to attack me and sorry but i could care less about what they have to say. they can stuff it for all I care. I for one am sick of these terrorist and I think that if they like murder so much they should go to an isle and kill each other off. Problem solved. Sorry if that sounds racist but really how is killing the rest of us off going to solve their problem, which by the way no one really knows what they want. Maybe this time the attack is because they want shoarma meet in their big mack instead of hamburger. I hope that I have not offended anyone to badly, but really I would like to live in a world with peace and understanding instead of everyone trying to kill everyone, because no one agrees on anything. When will the peace come??????????

[from_London]

What I want to know is when is it going to stop? When are these terrorist going to learn that the rest of the world simply does not share their points of view. and since when does murder ever make people want to listen.
Someone tries to attack me and sorry but i could care less about what they have to say. they can stuff it for all I care. I for one am sick of these terrorist and I think that if they like murder so much they should go to an isle and kill each other off. Problem solved. Sorry if that sounds racist but really how is killing the rest of us off going to solve their problem, which by the way no one really knows what they want.
Maybe this time the attack is because they want shoarma meet in their big mack instead of hamburger. I hope that I have not offended anyone to badly, but really I would like to live in a world with peace and understanding instead of everyone trying to kill everyone, because no one agrees on anything. When will the peace come??????????


Yeah i agree with what you are saying, it will probably stop once one side has been defeated and i know it wont be ours. I think we are getting closer all the time and a good example will be yesterdays events if we didnt stop it, well... i couldnt imagine 10 planes blowing up in the sky.

Also i dont think 1 country can fight all the terrroists, i think every country needs to get together

[Lisalou]

Also i dont think 1 country can fight all the terrroists, i think every country needs to get together

WELL SAID!!! I agree with you 100%

[Billygoat]

What do you think should be done to stop the terrorists?

And I've turned this whole fiasco into a educational experience for myself.

1. These "latest threats" were supposed to be liquid bombs.

Specifically Acetone Peroxide, which if you go look up is really a powder/crystal.

What the news agencies are trying to say is that the terrorists were going to make the Acetone Peroxide on the plane from liquid materials, which I won't list off here.
This takes time.
More than what you have on an intercontental flight on a propellor driven plane let alone a jet.
See for yourselves (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Chemical_synthesis/Acetone_peroxide)
(still not quite accurate, but good enough)

Maybe they're just not really sure what was going on.

If they aren't sure, why tell us?

2. At first I read that it might be Astrolite, which is alot easier to make and is actualy a liquid.

There were alot of other reports as well on other liquid explosives, but these were the two main ones I saw, feel free to point out others.

3. Making the possesion of the items necessary to make these explosives illegal would make you a terrorist.
And me.
And our Uncle Bob.
And that guy Jim at the shop.
Don't forget Betty at the Hair Salon.
And Old Macdonald on the farm.(seriously)

So what to do?
And if it really was the Acetone Peroxide that was going to be made, why should we belive a thing that they, the media, say now since they are obviously lying?

Or should we now feel overconfident that the terrorists are complete idiots that couldn't blow up a plane if they wanted to?
Which we know they're not.

Somebody get a decisive answer as to what was going to be made so this can be narrowed down.
Yeah, right, that'll happen.

We can't tell you because it is a matter of national security, you'll just have to belive whatever bos taurus doo doo that comes out of our reports, even if you know better.
As a matter of fact, you know how to make Astrolite do ya?
That would make you lookin like a terrorist now wouldn't it?

And just about every chemist on the planet.
So does that make chemists terrorists now?
Do we need a national database of chemists now to protect us from them?

Where does the insanity end?

And the two above answers of blowin stuff up doesn't work, it just gives them another reason to blow something of ours up, so we blow something of thiers up, ad infinitum.

Have the terrorists ever made a statement of what they want and why they're pissed?

And yes, I'm quite aware that you may not want to have read this post, but somebody has to stand up and say, "So does this mean that we have to give up more freedom for our security?"

“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety - Ben Franklin"

It's your freedom, don't let it away so easily.

[Lisalou]

Somebody get a decisive answer as to what was going to be made so this can be narrowed down.
Yeah, right, that'll happen.

You have to remember that if they gave us a decisive answer then the terror could stop. And well as you said that will never happen.

We can't tell you because it is a matter of national security, you'll just have to belive whatever bos taurus doo doo that comes out of our reports, even if you know better.
As a matter of fact, you know how to make Astrolite do ya?
That would make you lookin like a terrorist now wouldn't it?
And just about every chemist on the planet.
So does that make chemists terrorists now?
Do we need a national database of chemists now to protect us from them?

Well if Cat Stevens could be considered a terroist then anyone can. And keep in mind that in the middle east Bush is considered a terrorist. And the only reason why they don't tell us anything, is because they really don't have anything to tell us. If a government really cared about it's people then it would inform them so that they could make educated decisions and be able to protect themselves. (I just thought of something...why not give the american people handbooks on how to make exsplosives..then we could use them to protect ourselves) You have to keep in mind that the government thinks that we are all dumb and stupid and must be lead around like dogs on a leash. And here's a wild thought for you.... Maybe we could consider the chemist who give away the secret recipes as terrorist. After all they are all sitting around at a big table thinking up ways to make exsplosives, and ok that's their job. But what would happen if the "mole" who was selling the recipes for distruction was considered a terrorist or better yet charged and jailed like one? just thoguhts...



Where does the insanity end?

When power is given back to the little people. When Joe and Sally who live in america have a voice and somebody actually listens....

And the two above answers of blowin stuff up doesn't work, it just gives them another reason to blow something of ours up, so we blow something of thiers up, ad infinitum.

Keep in mind that you are dealing with the government and people who like to blow things up. These people like to play boss and the problem is this... average, everyday americans are going to pay the price for men who want to fight to the end to prove they are the winner. They are the head cheese.

Have the terrorists ever made a statement of what they want and why they're pissed?
"So does this mean that we have to give up more freedom for our security?"

I believe the statement made was that America must not meddle in the affairs of countries in the middle east or else where. As long as america meddles then the people living in america will live in fear. (seriously Osama said this after 9/11) And as for the second sentence, well no one is ever free are they, I mean not really. Your not free to do what ever you want, you may think you are but your not. In fact your life is very structured and very controlled. There is no such thing as freedom. That word is an illusion no matter where you live.



It's your freedom, don't let it away so easily.

Well what parts of you are actually free?

[Spancill Hill]

At least the plot was discovered before any damage was done. Now all the hostility will be taken out on passengers. No water, no baby bottles, no sanitary items, we'll have to pay $5 for a bottle of water now.:rolleyes:

[Billygoat]

Lieutenant-Colonel (ret.) Nigel Wylde, a former senior British Army Intelligence Officer, has suggested that the police and government story about the "terror plot" revealed on 10th August was part of a "pattern of lies and deceit." (http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Sources_August_Terror_Plot_Fiction_Underscoring_09 18.html)

So just when do we little people get to bring our shampoo on the plane again without being fingered as terrorists?

Since the rules went into effect, most travelers have abided by the law, packing their hand cream, hair gel and toothpaste in their checked luggage or leaving the items at home. The flouters, however, say they hate the hassle of long waits at baggage carousels and worry that their expensive bottles of perfume will be broken or stolen if placed in their checked luggage. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/12/AR2006091201635.html)

Well at least some people are already.
But...
Does that give you the feeling that people in general have common sense or that the Airport Security is just horsey doo-doo?
Or both?
Walking out your front door in the morning means you will face dangers and possibly great life-changing accidents.
(Actually, statistically speaking, getting out your front door means you have escaped the most accident prone area in your life, so you're doin good so far!!!)
But does this mean you will never leave your house again?
(or go back in if you're smart ;) )

Where does safety end and imprisonment begin?
The answer to that is different for each individual.
What is a resonable "security measure" for me may be just another chainlink for you and vice versa.
If life was safe we might not have this problem of "Airline Security" in the first place, just ask this guy:
Orville got broken ribs and a leg for a sales pitch...
The Wright brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wright_Brothers)
Safe means no Marie Curie discovering radium.
Safe also means your pjs' won't burn easily if your house catches on fire whilst you are sleeping.

What it boils down to for this terrorist plot that, if I remember right, was gotten out of a prisoner in Pakistan after much torture, is this:

"Are you safer because you are supposedly not allowwed to bring your bottled water on board?"
Not "Are you safer because someone else can't, but because you can't.
And with a "Spy-like" dude (Lieutenant-Colonel (ret.) Nigel Wylde, a former senior British Army Intelligence Officer) implying that it was Bos Taurus fecal matter ta start with do you think it would be nice if the security people stopped this ban, or should the Lieutenant-Colonel be arrested for treason?

Last point, again:
This may not even be what the real story behind the ban is anyways:
You Can't Handle the Truth Psy-ops propaganda goes mainstream. (http://www.slate.com/id/2126479/)

So maybe it is in our best interests to enforce the ban, we're just to stupid to be told what the "real" reason is.

Over here it used to be a "Government of the people, by the people and for the people"
So that would have made us to stupid to tell ourselves wouldn't it have?
Luckily that sentimental type of governance is long gone and it's only the smart people in office so we can accept being to dumb to understand the truth can't we?
Can't we??!!

[Ozzie]

It's typical of media to not understand what they're talking about, or of most governments either. You could make TATP on a plane, however it wouldn't actually react all the way to producing the crystals as you'd mix sulphuric acid into a mixture of acetone and peroxide really quickly. That would cause an explosion. But, it'd have to be done in a glass container as sulphuric acid will eat through all plastics. So shampoo and conditioner bottles are fine....... they're all plastic.

Thing is, you'd never get passed security with any of the substances anyway..... the sniffer dogs would pick up on the smell of acetone and sulphuric acid all too easily. You could yourself.

Anyway, why use acetone peroxide. It's too unstable and there are plenty of other things which will do the same job and are easier to handle. Geez, with what I know about chemistry and how to make things, I'd be a prime target for investigation!!!!. I'd have no problems at all making stuff to blow things up that are a lot safer than TATP that'll do exactly the same thing. I won't tell you all how to do it, but you can get a piece of cloth that when placed strategically on the right part of the undercarriage, will blow the wheels off the plane and cause it to crash. And with that being the case, will they now ban all clothing on aircraft..... or at least loose cloth, like handkerchiefs and such??. With many really attractive airline hostesses flying and young men onboard these planes at times, it could cause quite a ruckus!!!:p:D:eek:

Could give a whole new meaning to the "Mile High Club":D

Anyway, apart from that little bit of levity, if you really want to cause trouble like this, and you know enough science (and chemistry specifically), you can easily do your worst. It's not difficult to create stuff that will do damage to things. All it needs is the knowledge and the motivation to do so.