And this is Justice???????????

[Mr.smiley]

Please read; because,whether you love him or loathe
> him, he truly nailed this one right on the head....
> THIS...is JUSTICE ???????
>
> by Rush Limbaugh:
>
> I think the vast differences in compensation between
> victims of the September 11 casualty, and those who die serving our
> country in Uniform, are profound. No one is really talking about it
> either, because you just don' t criticize anything having to do with
> September 11.
>
> Well, I can't let the numbers just pass by, because
> it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of
> this country.
>
> If you lost a family member in the September 11
> attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a
> minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million.......
>
> However; if you are a surviving family member of an
> Amer ican soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a big
> $6,000 direct death benefit, half of which is taxable.
>
> Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are
> the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And
> there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the
> child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.
>
> Keep in mind that some of the people who are getting
> an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining that
> it's not enough. Their deaths were tragic, but for most, they were
> simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. But our military men
> allow themselves to be put in harm's way FOR ALL OF US , and they and
> their families know the dangers.... ( a willing sacrifice...)
>
> We also learned over the weekend that some of the
> victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization
> asking for the same deal that the Septembe r 11 families are getting.
> In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the
> embassies are now asking for compensa-tion, as well. You do see where
> this is going, don't you? Folks, this is part and parcel of over 50
> years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad.
> Every time a pay raise comes up for the military, they usually receive
> next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in
> the Middle East, while their families have to survive on food stamps
> and live in low-rent housing . Make any sense?
>
> However, our own Congress voted themselves a raise.
> Many of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one time
> to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month! (And most
> are now equal to being millionaires plus.) They do not receive Social
> Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the
> system.
>
> If some of the military people stay in for 20 years
> and get out as an E-7, they may receive a pension of $1,000 per month,
> while the very people who placed them in harm's way receives a pension
> of $15,000 per month...........
>
> I would like to see our elected officials pick up a
> weapon and join ranks, before they start cutting out more benefits and
> lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting!
>
> When do we finally do something about this? If this
> doesn't seem fair to you, it is time to forward this to as many people
> as you
> can.
>
> How many people CAN YOU send this to? And How
> many...... WILL YOU ?
>
>
>

[jayray54]

Here are clips from a press release from the Pentagon. It is dated February 1, 2005 so perhaps Rush's "crack research team" will run across it soon. ( will try to add a link to this entire and another article on the subject later)

"In 2003 the military gratuity was doubled, from $6,000, where it had stood since 1991, to $12,000, with subsequent increases to account for inflation, bringing it to $12,420 on Jan. 1, 2005. The 2003 legislation also made the payment fully tax-free. Before that, half was taxable.
Lawmakers in both the House and Senate have introduced bills to raise both the gratuity and the life insurance coverage, reflecting a broader trend of more generous military benefit programs, including financial benefits for military retirees, their survivors and families of those killed in battle.
The death gratuity is a one-time payment intended to be given to the family immediately after a service member's death; it is separate from an array of other survivor benefits such as housing aid.
As a result of that legislation, the Death Gratuity is $100,000

It's not that I think even $100,000 is enough, or that congress should receive pensions after one term, but, before a jury can decide about Justice, it requires the facts. Rush just doen't have them. I'm Shocked!!!

I've been following this issue of low military death gratuity benefits since Imus first started harping on it in 2003, shortly after we entered Iraq. He browbeat every member of congress who appeared on his show.

Hope Rush doesn't hurt himself trying to jump on a bandwagon that he let pass him by a couple years ago.

[Lisalou]

I am one of the few people that actually LOVE Rush Limbaugh and Micheal Moore. You could add Larry King to that also. Why? Because these guys tell it like it is and I am a person who wishes that I had the guts sometimes to just do the same. I think it takes courage to stand up say what's really happening and then except the fact that there will be some people out their who will hate you, disagree with you, and in fact try to kill you. (we saw that recently here in the Netherlands with the death of Theo van Gogh. He is a person who is similar to Micheal Moore)
Once again Rush brings us to light of the pathetic minds of the very people who say they have our interest at heart. (Now before I go on I will inform you that I am an American, I was born and raised in America and have lived over seas now for 3 years) I think it's best to keep in mind that politics is just that politics. It is also a game of power. It is rich men getting richer off the little people they pretend to care about. I want to give you an example of a senator that really makes me mad. (I'm going to leave out his name because perhaps I could get sued I think) This man claimed to be a member of my church. We have church buildings all over the world. This perticular senator would come to church only when asked by church leaders, and he never spoke of God etc, he always spoke of his campaign. He always ended each speach by saying "This land and great country was founded on the principle of In God We Trust so let's put our trust in God" And of course this sentence was the only time he ever mentioned God. But of course his imagine is known as God Fearing, christian, family man. He told us what we wanted to hear so we would elect him and line his pockets with dough. He is the wealthiest member of our church and as of yet has never contributed to our projects to help people, whether that be money or actually showing up to use his hands to help. After a death in the family this same Senator could not be bothered with anything to do with the church because he was greeving. At his last apperance some 4 years ago in our church building we had a meet and greet with him. He was going on and on about how one day he would be Persident, I meantioned in passing that I would love to take on the challenge of being his Press Secretary and I have the schooling for that. He said and I quote "I prefer not to eat where I poop(used a different word), if you get my drift." And then he walked off. So take my advice when I say that you can't put to much faith in anyone in politics.
When I think of events gone horrible in america I think there are things that could have been handled different. Of course 911 was tragic. No one is argueing that. But no one needs to get millions out of it. Of course the victims of Oklahoma City are now screming give us money. That situation was not handled the same way because it was a American that killed those people. America(Perhaps the mentality of America is pay off only if the victims are attacked by people we deem as harmful i.e. Arabs or people of middle eastern decent) America is more affraid of Muslims then they are of gang banger, and frankly the gang bangers scare me more.
America did pour out it hearts and wallets for 911. But I do think some of the money was misused. I watched on t.v. special that made me sick. It was stories of this misuse. One case was a women divorcing her husband and that morning they were due in court to finalize the divorce settlement. Of course he didn't make it. (keep in mind they had signed divorce papers, and this was simply a settlement hearing) But the 911 fund people claimed she was still the spouse and paid her 11.9 million dollars. So she sold the poperties that they had (she was already a millionaire from her husbands work) and 4 weeks after 911 married her boyfriend the cause of her divorce and they bought a place in the hamptons. Sound like money well spent? I don't think so, nor do I think she was a grieving spouse. Then again there were people who were not so wealthy already but after hearing that the co workers of their dead spouse had more then them they went to court. Of course some were paid 2 million dollars and still screamed that's not fair. Ok so we all see where this is heading and the greed is sickening. But what to do about the poor soldiers who are killed in action? Hmmm well they did sign up and they did know that there are dangers so that's their problem!! I THINK THIS MENTALITY IS WRONG AND DILUTED AND SICK!!! These men and women are out their busting their humps and taking orders and doing what they are told, to fight in a cause that most don't believe in anymore. But they do what they are told and in some cases die for that cause. Where is the poor, humble Army or Marine wifes settlement? When her husband is killed on the front lines where is her millions? In most cases these poor women ,if they are lucky enough to have on base housing, have to move out within 30 days. The memory of these soldiers stay in the family. No one is making parades or fundraising events for these people. No one is showing up on their door saying "sorry for your loss here is 2.9 million and free cable for life, along with scholarships for your kids to Harvard."
Prime example is Lori Piestewa, the first women killed in action in Iraq. She was also a native american. No one came to her families rescue when her parents now have to raise her two children on their own. She was a single mother of 2 beautiful children. Where was the military when her parents had to live on a reservation? This family got compensation but first they needed to be picked for a extreme home makeover. Luckily they were picked and now they have been compinsated. But let it be known that that compinsation did not come from Uncle Sam.
I want our boys and girls to come home. This fight over seas will never end. That land is cursed. For thousands of years there have been blood shed and grief in the middle east. I want our troops to come home. I want these women to raise their babies and the men to once again be fathers. I want these soldiers to have a chance at a normal life that they deserve. Why should they fight and die for a cause that no longer has a cause. If someones spouse or son or daughter dies in the line of duty then I want their memory preserved. I want scholarships for their children, and compinsation for their family. I am not alone in this thinking. But I don't run the U.S.

[Astro_Man]

Seriously Smiley, check the facts before you post this chain mail nonsense.

jayray54 already gave you the facts, now I'll provide the link.

The death gratuity payment is $12,420, and is non-taxable. For those whose death is as a result of hostile actions and occurred in a designated combat operation or combat zone or while training for combat or performing hazardous duty, the payment is $100,000.

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/casualty/blgratuity.htm

[jayray54]

Thanks Astro Man, I had forgotten to come back with a link. Here's another from the Department of Defense:

DOD Press Release 2005 (http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2005/nr20050701-3863.html)

[Lisalou]

Hey Smiley...
Am I the only person who got the point you were trying to make???
I would not call your post nonsense and in fact I am thankful to the people out there like you who care about the troops enough to say something. Whether the payouts for the military are more or less of what you said the fact remains the same it's not millions. And I myself (from personal exsperience) know how slow the military is to payout anything. In fact my ex left the military just 2 years ago and the college money they promise is not there. The DOD is now saying that they payout no college tuition funds if the country is at war. So basically he thinks he will not see the money even though he signed a contract that said he would.
I think we should have a fund raiser or at least a huge kick*** party for the people over seas. You know like a live aid only BIGGER AND BETTER!!! My idea was 51 bands (represents 51 states) 3 days and all you can eat!!! And for the people with children I think 2 days free admission to Disneyland. But first the soldiers need to come home.

[CelestialAngel]

Give Bob a break.

Despite the fact that the figures may not be correct, I think our troops deserve much more and that our government needs to step up. I don't quite agree with the comments on entitlement etc., but I guess there's always another day.

[jayray54]

Give Bob a break.

Despite the fact that the figures may not be correct, I think our troops deserve much more and that our government needs to step up. I don't quite agree with the comments on entitlement etc., but I guess there's always another day.

The significance of the incorrect figures, I think, is that it demonstrates that Rush's article was not about supporting the troops but was about demonizing the "entitlements" and congress. That's what the major portion of the article was about.
If Rush truely supported the troops, how could he not be aware of their current benefits?

" I would like to see our elected officials pick up a
> weapon and join ranks, before they start cutting out more benefits and
> lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting!
>
> When do we finally do something about this? If this
> doesn't seem fair to you, it is time to forward this to as many people
> as you
> can.

That's what Rush asks to be done about the situation with the troops. How does that help? No call for increasing benefits. No call for improving after-care services for wounded soldiers. No call even to contact congress and complain. Just pass this article on to "someone else". How does that help? How does that support the troops?

[CelestialAngel]

I did not say that the article supports troops in any way through advocating corrective action nor did I claim it was correct, I was just stating that our troops need more. I also stated that I disagree with the comments made on entitlement. So chill.

I wish I had more time to elaborate however my responsibilities are beckoning.

[Astro_Man]

Give Bob a break.


The issue with Bob goes far deeper than a single post. Hey everybody! Let's pick on Bob! Sorry, it didn't happen like that. Uncle Bob has made a habit out of posting utter nonsense and straight out lies, but when he is confronted with the facts, he never responds. It doesn't take a genius to know that he copies the text of the chain e-mails he recieves without understanding what he's posting.

[CelestialAngel]

I completely agree and I've seen him do it all the time, I don't know, I guess I just don't want to be mean to him because I've seen him posting for years now. With all due respect, don't you guys have something better to do?

[Astro_Man]

Sure, I have plenty of other things to do; right now it's time to churn the butter. C'mon, it's not like I live here, lol, check my post count. With all due respect, there's a difference between being mean to Bob and asking him to make his case with facts. If I was calling him names left and right I could see your point, but that isn't the case.

[kittycat]

interesting

[Scollzie]

Keep things friendly, folks. ;) This forum's about debating issues, not members. I'm sure I've got some points of view that would leave you thinking I've lost the plot and come from another galaxy, but that shouldn't affect my right to post them, should it? Just as long as I stick within the overall rules of the forum, right? And you're similarly welcome to ignore my opinion.

Also, in my view it's a very healthy thing for us to have great diversity of opinion. Let's face it, if it weren't for that we wouldn't have a forum here, but a handbook. ;) (You are more than welcome to disagree with me on this.)
Just keep things friendly. (You are not welcome to disagree with me on this. Not on this forum anyway)

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to return to the mothership. :p