THE GREAT SCHLEP

[Designer M]

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[Laurita]

I believe that the change is posible!
Go Barack Obama!

Lau.

[Drivingtdy]

John McCain has no more Dignity left. His desperation at his last chance to become President has clouded his ability to be even a civil human being. Smears,attacks,Lies are the only thing left for the Republicans.

He had a choice to campaign on the issues as he said "This will be a campaign on issues not attacks"

Instead he used the lowest road playing the same OLD dirty politics

I for one no longer have any respect for John McCain.:(

[Ozzie]

John McCain has no more Dignity left. His desperation at his last chance to become President has clouded his ability to be even a civil human being. Smears,attacks,Lies are the only thing left for the Republicans.

He had a choice to campaign on the issues as he said "This will be a campaign on issues not attacks"

Instead he used the lowest road playing the same OLD dirty politics

I for one no longer have any respect for John McCain.:(

What do you expect??!!.....you can't trust them, and things will always remain the same until you decide to change things. The party political process is fatally flawed.

[Vick]

John McCain has no more Dignity left. His desperation at his last chance to become President has clouded his ability to be even a civil human being. Smears,attacks,Lies are the only thing left for the Republicans.

He had a choice to campaign on the issues as he said "This will be a campaign on issues not attacks"

Instead he used the lowest road playing the same OLD dirty politics

I for one no longer have any respect for John McCain.:(
I actually sent him an email on that very subject today.
I basically said. He promised to run a campaign filled with honesty and integrity...
If this is the way he runs a campaign... breaking promises.. why should we think he'd run his administration any differently... breaking promises, lying and being unrepentantly dishonest.
Hmmmm sounds like what we have right now... another Bush admin.

[Ozzie]

I actually sent him an email on that very subject today.
I basically said. He promised to run a campaign filled with honesty and integrity...
If this is the way he runs a campaign... breaking promises.. why should we think he'd run his administration any differently... breaking promises, lying and being unrepentantly dishonest.
Hmmmm sounds like what we have right now... another Bush admin.

Vickster.....I wouldn't expect anything less of him. He's just living upto par. I've dealt with too many of them to know what type of lying scoundrel these people are.

[SJT]

I don't think the swearing is necessary, but obviously Barack Obama is the best candidate for the job.

We are amidst an environmental crisis that is causing the extinction of life on Earth. The burden of proof is not on proving that the crisis is real; the burden of proof is in proving that we are not already past the point of no return.

It is all around us. Just Google "facts about fish population declines". A few decades from now, there will be virtually none left in the world's oceans. Or Google "species extinct by" including the quotes. We need to act before all of us die.

You and I can make small steps, but the government can make big steps- and now is our chance to make a huge, and absolutely necessary, change in the future of our nation and our world.

Political issues come and go. Matters of worldwide life and death are more serious. We need answers. We need results. We need to live.

[Ozzie]

I don't think the swearing is necessary, but obviously Barack Obama is the best candidate for the job.

We are amidst an environmental crisis that is causing the extinction of life on Earth. The burden of proof is not on proving that the crisis is real; the burden of proof is in proving that we are not already past the point of no return.

It is all around us. Just Google "facts about fish population declines". A few decades from now, there will be virtually no life left in the world's oceans. Or Google "species extinct by" including the quotes. We need to act before all of us die.

You and I can make small steps, but the government can make big steps- and now is our chance to make a huge, and absolutely necessary, change in the future of our nation and our world.

Political issues come and go. Matters of worldwide life and death are more serious. We need answers. We need results. We need to live.

The big problem is, Steve, that most of us are too apathetic and/or not willing to face the solutions to these problems. Why??, because the solutions themselves are drastic, in some cases to the extreme. The planet's resources have been pushed to close to their limits by our inefficient use of those resources, and I'm not talking about the developing countries. US, that's who I'm talking about. The "West". Our present technologies are wasteful and inefficient, and whilst this planet could support the 1.5 billion or so that are at this level of development (highly advanced societies), it can't handle more. Regardless of what their ambitions are, China and those other countries trying to get to out stage of development just won't get there. They can't because we just don't have enough as it is. Plus, their moving headlong down the same path as we have over the last 250 years or so....progress for progress' sake. The only way this planet could support 6-8 billion people out our level of technology or greater would be to have a radically different sociopolitical and financial structure, plus a period of extremely rapid and radical technological advancement. This talk of environmentally sustainable development just doesn't cut it, truthfully. All of the technologies they go on about are nothing more than an attempt at trying to patch up the problems with band aid solutions. Most will only be partially successful, some are a joke. They are good for stopgap measures, to buy us some time and to be used as backups, but what we really need is radically new ways of producing energy. Money and research needs to be poured into finding out how to harness nuclear fusion (hot, cold or otherwise), zero point energy, matter/antimatter, and the like. New ways of manufacturing, new technological developments in the fundamental sciences which will give us the tools to help ourselves. Though, more importantly, a new way of looking at the way we live....a new ethics....one not based on the present sociopolitical and religious paradigms. One based on the essence of the fundamental worth of human beings. The recognition that we are one with everything else. Not as some special "uber-species" with the right to just take what we please and to hell with the consequences. Without some "divine perogative" to "go forth and mulitply" and conquer. That is the most insidious, vain and irresponsible attitude that has ever been perpetrated on humanity and this planet. It's ruining our planet, and possibly jeopardising our very existence.

Instead of looking at short and medium term quick fixes, we need to look at our long term needs. I'm afraid politicians and big business aren't cut out to do that. Never have been and never will. They're too interested in themselves, power and profit. I'm not saying that solar power and the like aren't useful. They are, but they'll never be more than just auxiliary means of power generation. Plus, whilst you have this chest-beating, nationalistic, jingoistic, politically self-serving claptrap that most nations go on with, happening all the time, you'll never get the level of co-operation and resource development needed to get us out of this mess.

So, if you want to see the right type of change occurring, and you want a better world overall, you're going to have to make some pretty important and radically different decisions to the ones you've made in the past. You're also going to have to convince many others to do so as well. Whilst it may mean having to work within the confines of your sociopolitical paradigm as it is at present, you will have to realise that this will all have to change....completely....if you want things to get better. Democracy needs a "top overhaul", capitalism (as it is) needs to be confined to the dustbin of history. For all it's "glitz and glamour", at what cost has capitalism made our present society the one it is. We really need to take a good look at ourselves and wake up to the damage being done before it truly is too late.

[SJT]

Though, more importantly, a new way of looking at the way we live....a new ethics....one not based on the present sociopolitical and religious paradigms. One based on the essence of the fundamental worth of human beings. The recognition that we are one with everything else. Not as some special "uber-species" with the right to just take what we please and to hell with the consequences. Without some "divine perogative" to "go forth and mulitply" and conquer. That is the most insidious, vain and irresponsible attitude that has ever been perpetrated on humanity and this planet. It's ruining our planet, and possibly jeopardising our very existence.

Religion does not teach the degradation of the environment. It teaches its care.

I didn't post here to be forced into a debate to defend my religion, so please don't take this thread off-topic.

As you say, tolerance is necessary in order to achieve results.

Steve

[Ozzie]

Religion does not teach the degradation of the environment. It teaches its care.

I didn't post here to be forced into a debate to defend my religion, so please don't take this thread off-topic.

As you say, tolerance is necessary in order to achieve results.

Steve

You don't have to defend anything Steve. This is silly. It's not going off topic here at all. The problem is that too many people will not face the truth of the matter....with any topic which may impinge upon our present situation. All factors dealing with people's attitudes and beliefs are necessarily up for consideration. The problem is that too many people find certain topics "too sensitive" for debate....unfortunately if you want to get to the bottom of the problems we face, you're going to have to face some rather thorny questions and look things right in the eye.

I'm not going to debate you about religion.....this is neither the time nor the forum to do so. But at some stage, we are all going to have to face up to many unpalatable home truths about a great many things....not only anything to do with belief systems....in order to make the changes we need to work towards. Otherwise, it's just going to be more of the same old story we've repeated for thousands of years and nothing will change. That being the case, we might as well give up right now.

Like I said, tolerance is the key issue, but that doesn't mean we just leave certain subjects and ideas out of consideration, just because it may upset some group's "sensibilities".

We all need to be more mature than that.

[Swissgirl]

I actually sent him an email on that very subject today.
I basically said. He promised to run a campaign filled with honesty and integrity...
If this is the way he runs a campaign... breaking promises.. why should we think he'd run his administration any differently... breaking promises, lying and being unrepentantly dishonest.
Hmmmm sounds like what we have right now... another Bush admin.

oh my god, that's what I thought so, too! I never been much for Bush either!:eek:
I mean Obama is gonna win the cadidateship anyway, so...and I deeply hope he's also gonna change the view of people from today's America all over the world.
Shame on Bush and shame on McCain!!

[SJT]

Like I said, tolerance is the key issue, but that doesn't mean we just leave certain subjects and ideas out of consideration, just because it may upset some group's "sensibilities".

We all need to be more mature than that.

That's right. There's a difference between talking about issues, and slamming them.

"Without some "divine perogative" to "go forth and mulitply" and conquer. That is the most insidious, vain and irresponsible attitude that has ever been perpetrated on humanity and this planet. It's ruining our planet, and possibly jeopardising our very existence."

If you are going to say something like this, then you need a way to back it up. And you need so much defense and discussion that it becomes an entirely different topic on its own.

That's why I'm asking you to start a different thread if you insist on doing this.

[Ozzie]

That's right. There's a difference between talking about issues, and slamming them.



If you are going to say something like this, then you need a way to back it up. And you need so much defense and discussion that it becomes an entirely different topic on its own.

That's why I'm asking you to start a different thread if you insist on doing this.

True.

And you're right about the size of the issue.....that's why I said it's not the right time or place to be going into a massive debate on the subject. That's more for the public forum that we have with elections, public meetings and such. But that's where we need to talk about it all. We need to get enough people talking about it....openly and get differing opinions and such going, otherwise these guys that have a vested interest in the status quo will manipulate things to stay the way they are, and we'll be none the wiser for it.

Viva la Revolucion!!!:p:p:D:D

[Ozzie]

OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008

ALYSSA IN 2016!!!
:p:D:D:D:p

[Ilovebrunettes]

OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008

ALYSSA IN 2016!!!
:p:D:D:D:p





You just gave me an idea! I'll do a write-in for Alyssa on 11/4 this year. She'd make an awesome president!

Zach